[Log of the Dan Simmons Flashpoint discussion. Thursday, February 25th, 1999 from 10:00 pm EST to 11:30 pm EST. I have edited the log slightly for readability. I have removed the 'GA' and '?' signals, removed IRC notifications of people entering and exiting the chat, fixed obvious typos and removed private messages that were inadvertantly broadcast to the whole group. -- '?' was used to signify desire to ask Dan a question, 'GA' was used to signify that a speaker had completed his thought.] [IRC log started Thu Feb 25 20:54] ### Value of LOG set to ON ### Topic for #Flashpoint: -- Dan Simmons ### #Flashpoint EH_JimFreund 919974075 ### #Flashpoint 919974029 there he is Hello Mr. Simmons! I read short fiction all the time when I'm reading for YBFH. Was I just greeted by . . . the Shrike? But I'm always reading a novel, as well. Usually dark thrillers or horror. Hi Dan, Hi, Ellen Hi Dan. * Bingo waves. "Evening." Hey, a lot of shrikes here tonight. Good evening . . .Kalishrike? Wow. I'm a little concerned about all these Shrikes in such a small space. it always happens this way Well I think we are all far away in the real world.... Is Jim here? Shrike shredded him.... Yep, Hi Dan! Just stepped away for a minute. Sorry I didn't call, Jim . . . was on tour all day and just got the message. Understood. Sorry I didn't know you were in NYC. Would have liked to have grabbed you for a radio interview. We should be startint in about a minute. I'm ready to startint when you're ready to startint.. "g" "g" But you knew that:> Hemilich Maneuver time!!!! LOL OK,I'll quiet down. I show 9:56 NY time. -- Should we be startint earlyt? I've got 10pm I think we're a few mins. early I've got 9:57-- one of us is wrong. 6:56 here Yep Naval Observatory has 9:57 ET. We're all wrong. there is no real time. 3:58 AM here! Wow . . . where is it 3:58? Take a guess! England (It's on Earth...) North Atlantic England? England it's 2:58, I think - I'm typing from Spain Ok I've recalibrated my watch and my laptop time. Bristol? I've recalibrated my lap as well. Well, 10 PM or not, ER is on, so it must be time... Hereon, we should use ellipsis (...) and GA (go ahead) to show if we're done with statements. Keats, Twain, and now Hemingway. Dan Simmons contiues to weave a blend of fact with fantasy, sf, and now thrillers. _The Crook Factory_ regards amoral FBI agent Joe Lucas, and his assignment to infiltrate a counter-espionage ring established in WWII Cuba led by Ernest "Papa" Hemingway... Characters we encounter along the way include Ingrid Bergman, Gary Cooper, Ian Fleming, and Marlene Dietrich, while. I found _The Crook Factory_ an enticing, fun page-turner, and am glad to have this opportunity to talk about with the author and all of you... As has become custom, the beginning of the chat will be in the form of a one-on-one interview with Dan and I, and then we will open the (virtual) floor for questions. At that time, signify that you have a question by typing a "?", and you will be called upon. If you want to interject something relevant at that point, feel free to jump in *after* the current speaker is done... Hi Dan, and welcome to Flashpoint. Hi, Jim . . . thank you for the great synopsis. To begin, what is it about Hemingway that sparks so many writers to write about him? Probably the mystique he created aboiut his own life ... and the fact that he dominates literature in this century in many ways. What kind of research did you do about him? Travel to Key West, or some such? No -- I've been to Key West but the book is set in Cuba . . . ...and I had a trip planned for Cuba but never ended up traveling there ... which is unusual for me, because my research has sent me to Transylvania, Bangkok, and Peoria, Illinois. I was once in Key West, and visited his hacienda. It's maintained as a home for the descendants of all his cats... How then, did you determine his character? Right -- his six-toed cats -- and did you see the --what was it? Penny that he slapped into the cement of the swimming pool? Lots of reading and research to try to ferret out his character. Yes, I saw that penny, as well as the urinal he had replaced one of his wife's favorite sculptures with... How's about the intelligence community, and the general situation in WWII Cuba? A lot of that is still hazy ... but can be found through nonfiction tomes, FBI reports, and some Cuban publications. Since publication, have you heard from anyone in those communities or that era about the book? A famous Hemingway scholar and friend of Martha Gellhorn is reading the book . . . and there was an ex-FBI agent at a reading here in NYC tonight. Have they shared any comments/insight with you yet? Nothing startling. I'm sure the best is yet to come. Probably from EH's children. That should prove interesting... As will the new "Hemingway novel" to be released this summer from Scribners. What's that? 858 pages of scribbles . . . He left behind from his last AFrican adventure . . . which his son has cut down to 300-some pages. Oh, writing actually *by* Hemingway. That's different. Just what prompted you to segue from "Rise of Hyperion" to this? It's quite different (and certainly a wonderful show of versatility). Versatility is my personal plague . . . at least according to some publishers . . . but I just celebrate the freedom to write about what interests me . . . and let other folks worry about the genre placement and marketing. Were there any opther historical characters you would've like to work into TCF, but just couldn't for some reason? (I was hoping to run into Gaham Greene researching "Our Man In Havava") No, I didn't want to bend history too far out of shape . . . including Ingrid Bergman, Gary Cooper, Marlene Dietrich . . . and the young Ian Fleming worked because they all had some vested interest in the events. Just how much "history" is there in TCF? How much of the circumstances are true? I've suggested that about 95% of the story is "true" in that follows . . . the warp and weave of the actual events and timelines. . . but, of course, including any fictional element makes it 100% fiction. True. I guess I'm asking really elementary stuff, like, was EH in Cuba at that time? Did he ever get involved in any such types of intrigue, no matter how mildly, etc? EH was in Cuba. . . He did start a counterespionage group called The Crook Factory . . . made up of whores, thieves, wharf rats, priests, and Spanish noblemen .. . he did chase Nazi submarines with his 38-foot boat, the Pilar . . . which he armed as a Q-ship with bazookas and Tommy guns and... one hellaciously big BOMB... which he planned to toss down the conning tower of any sub that surfaced. ... He did get involved with some very sensitive issues which are still classified by the FBI .. . and the FBI folder on him continued after his death in 1961. Any chance of any of this stuff becoming declassified? Eventually everything will be declassified, but . . . as you know, the most sensitive of J. Edgar Hoover's files . . . "disappeared" the day he died . What can you tell us about _Darwin's Blade_? Darwin's Blade is novel that I'm just finishing . . . which might be described as an exploration of the bottomless depths of . . . stupidity.... primarily in how people kill themselves... ala the Darwin Awards which most Net-savvy folks know about.... but it's also a book about insurance fraud in California, which is now . . . being organized by the Russian Mafia . . . and about the science of accident reconstruction. How would you describe it? Potboiler? (Not SF, I assume) Not SF. Action/black-comedy/thriller might describe it. Planning on any sf/f in the near future? (Not that that's all we read, but it *is* of interest.) It depends upon your definition of the word "is" . . . No SF in the immediate future, except for a novella coming out . . . in Bob Silverberg's Avon anthologies Far Horizons this May. It's now time to open the floor. If you have any questions or comments for Dan Simmons, please signify by typing a "?", and you will be called upon. If you wish to interject into a conversation with something relevant, go ahead, but *after* the person currently "speaking" has finished with a ... Dan, you're working on a movie script now? (I'll wait) I'm working on a film script for an adaptation of my novel CHILDREN OF THE NIGHT . . . Mr. Simmons, from the various kinds of novels you've written, which has been the most satisfying? AND have you read Haldeman's novel featuring Hemmingway, if so what did you think? I haven't read Joe's book on Hemingway because Joe's style ... might have influenced my writing. But now I look forward to it. .. And all the novels are satisfying in quite different ways. Will "Orphans Of The Helix" be about the Amoiete Spectrum Helix people? How did you know that, Eli? What is "Orphans of the Helix?" Is that the novella? Just a guess. Remembered "Helix" from Raul Endymion's kidney-stone troubles. Orphans of the Helix is the novella in the silverberg book and does indeed deal with the Amoiete Spectrum Helix society . . . some 300 years after the events of the Rise of Endymion. Can you tell us a little about the statue in your yard? WEll, the Shrike statue in my yard disappeared . . . and ended up near my mountain cabin in the Rockies . . . The Shrike was sculpted by Ms. Clee Richeson, and ex-6th grade student of mine . . . and one of the finest young sculptors in the country. . . You're all invited to visit the cabin and see the Shrike,alone in the woods, with a 3000 halogen spot on it at night. And I commissioned a bronze dodo by her. Very appropriate, Ellen. 3 part question: one, was it difficult to write in first person again after 13 years... two, what book will Charles Dickens figure in as a character... and three, how was Duane's Farm recieved in NY? Dorman, you know my writing and career better than I do . . . No, it wasn't hard to return to 1st person, although I could not have told you it was 13 years... and Charles Dickens is set to play the central role in a novel titled . . . THE GREAT OVEN . . . or somesuch . . . his term for the underbelly of London in 1867. . . and the book deals with the terrible train crash he was in in 1865 and the traumatic aftermath... during which he thought of himself as a killer.. .. Finally, everyone in New York has been quite interested in my "Duane's farm" horror novel suggestion. They are very patient with me. Mr. Simmons, have you found any company that has shown interest in your Hyperion interactive CD-ROM you were working on earlier, but was abandoned? Good question. . . AFter Microsoft killed the project, I received all of my work and designs back . . . and just during the last few weeks there has been interest from more than one company . . . on the DVD interactive Hyperion game first designed for Gates & Co. What terrible trauma, what dark, unrecorded and possibly unprintable incident occurred in Dothan, Alabama, to cast such an indelible blot on the escutcheon of this fine southern community? (sorry for the non sequitur) (but I've been dieing to ask that forever) Is anyone here from Dothan, Alabama? Go for it. No one to tell on you Dan. I will never tell. Like Dickens and his mistress, I am sworn to secrecy about . . . THE EVENT. Placher will spill. ARGH!! * Bingo smiles. Someone knows Placher? * Bingo does. Bill Placher? Unapologetic Theologian at a quaint college in the middle of Indiana. I know you, Bingo. Placher is one of the best theologians in the country.. . . says this avowed atheist. Anyway, my question: Do you have any plans to tour in support of _The Crook Factory_? More questions? why do you often write from a woman's point of view - is it the challenge of it? I'm on tour as we speak . . . currently in a sleazy NYC hotel room . . . Martin please "raise your hand and I'll call on you" so small that even the rats have to walk stoop-shouldered. Please repeat. Is there a schedule posted anywhere on the net for your events? -- Or more traditional modes of getting the information? why do you often write from a woman's point of view ? There aren't many signings, I'm afraid. . . . As for writing from a woman's point of view, it certainly is a challenge . . . I wish reincarnation were true just so that I could perceive life from a woman's perspective. Any other screenplays in development for the future? Many are optioned, few are called. Mr. Simmons, Part One: I know this may be a bit personal, but are you religious? Or were you raised religious? Part Two: Are you going to be coming to the Northwest? Endymion and Rise of Endymion were both 1st person. eek, sorry. You're excused, Eli. .. And you're correct as well! . . . As for Dorman's question -- I was raised Catholic . . . became a non-believer at an early age . . . and have been obsessed with theology every since . . And no, there are no plans to mail me to the northwest. Dan, did your story "Entropy's Bed at Midnight" lead to the upcoming novel "Darwin's Blade"? Good question . . . In a way it did, since the themes of dealing with death through comedy are similar . . . but mostly it's my private investigator brother's funny insurance files that are behind it. If Martin Silenus is Ezra Pound, who's Joe Lucas? The Shrike? I dunno . . . who said that Silenus was Ezra Pound you classics major you. You did. Oh. Your short fiction has been far and few between of late, has that been by design... or out of necessity? (by the way Endymion, etc, were 1st and 3rd person) I love short fiction, Dorman, and I love writing it . . . but the demands of one novel a year, certain non-fiction (such as a long appreciation of Jack Vance)... and little things like screenplays tend to absorb my energies.... but it doesn't make me any happier about not producing short work . . .. I hope I find time to get back to more short fiction. At heart though, . .. I suspect I'm just a longwinded novelist. What writers do you enjoy, and which have influenced you? It would be easier to give you a list of the writers I don't enjoy . . . much shorter list . . . but someone like John Fowles really creates deep admiration in me. Earlier, you mentioned an ex-student. What did you do before you could write for a living, and how long did you write before publication? I was an elementary teacher for 18 years ... and I wrote during much of that time . . . but there was only about a year from when I started writing "seriously" --ie with publication in mind ... until my first publication. Asked earlier but not answered -- what's the best way for fans to keep track of what you're doing -- outside of careening all over the net or waiting for a publisher to reveal something? I apologize for not answering more clearly . . . late this year I hope to open a web page... which will not only tell where and when I'm signing and touring . . . but will offer such things as first editions of my older books, Carrion Comfort t-shirts,... customized chess sets from the Hyperion books . . . and little Shrike sculptures by Clee Richeson. All proceeds, of course . . . will go to my favorite charity.... moi. Have you found enough background material on the "Lucas" mentioned by Carlos Baker to feel confident that he has no descendants to be potentially offended by your characterization of Joe Lucas? No. If they're offended, I'm sorry. But Lucas was a truly shadowy character. Perhaps both for you and Ellen: Will the online story "Looking for Kelly Dahl" ever be made available again online? How about it Ellen? Well, it's been published in print already so I don't know..... We can discuss it:> It's a terrific novella! Privately, I know. Dan, Would this "Duane's Farm" have anything to do with a Duane McBride we met and mourned too young? Duane's Farm is indeed the farm of the late and quite lamented (by readers, at least)... Duane McBride from SUMMER OF NIGHT. . . . The novel finds his friend, the adult (51 yr. old) writer Dale Stewart . . . having totally screwed up his life, his marriage, his career . . . and he returns to "Duane's farm" -- unchanged since 1960 because a crazy aunt ... had been living there . . . in order to find calm and inspiration.... Bad choice. The book will be called THE HOUNDS OF WINTER. What two pieces will be in NEGATIVE SPACES? A very long talk I presented to the International Conference on the Fantastic . . . and a speech I gave in Nancy, France . . . What is that and when is it coming out? Subterranean Press. Early summer, I believe. Contact Bil Schaeffer. How much of Summer of Night is autobiographical? Dale Stewart/Dan Simmons... My God, I've been found out! . . . Much of it was autobiographical. All the kids' first names . . . the town . . . the cemetery . . . some of the actual events (believe it or not) . . . only I never expected people in that little Illinois town to read the book.... but they did . . . Oh, boy. Did they. Oh, okay- sorry Do you still have a copy of a short story you mentioned once ... with a character who is descended from the characters of Maggie Brown and Richard Baedecker? ..and will it ever see print? Yes, actually. It's set on Mars. I wrote it in college. It's how I "discovered" the astronaut . . . Richard Baedecker from my book Phases of GRavity. . . . No one will ever see that story. I promise. Dan, are there still plans for a book about a couple travelling around America on their Anniversary (or something like that)? ?Is there a type/style of novel that you haven't written yet but would like to? To answer Kalishrike . . . the traveling around America novel has morphed into the Duane's Farm novel . . . to answer Martin's question . . . absolutely. There are still fascinating types of novels I'd like to try . . . including a straight out contemporary love story. Have you heard whether or not your story for THE LAST DANGEROUS (etc) will be ... thawed out from cryogenic storage (that's all from me good luck on the rest of your tour!) Uh oh! I'm looking forward to the day when all the Last Dangerous Visions stories are thawed . . . and we discover some of these hot new writers . . . such as Stephen King. (No knock on Harlan here . . . the book exists . . . it's just slouching toward Bethlehem, in its own good time, waiting to be born. Is Subterranean Press publishing Hounds Of Winter or Negative Spaces? (and who's publishing the other?) Eli, Sub. Press is doing the Negative Space chapbook . . . and I will present The Hounds of Winter to AVon for first refusal. Speaking of Phases of Gravity, will it be reprinted again sometime soon? I believe Phases is still in print but very hard to locate. I would certainly welcome a new edition. R. McCammon has let it be known that he's been unable to publish outside his genre (two books unspoken for) -- any ideas on why/how you were able to do this so successfully? more clout with your publisher? hope this isn't a totally inappropriate question. No, it's a totally appropriate and pertinent question to thousandsof authors . . . . . .and I have no idea why Rick McCammon hasn't found publishers to back him . . . he's a wonderful writer, and I was at the World Fantasy Convention in Seattle years ago . . . when he announced his purpose to branch out and try new things . . . Everyone seemed to ignore him then. Very strange. I certainly have no more clout than McCammon. . . ...but I'm damned stubborn and determined to find a publisher for everything I write. I thought Boy's Life did well. Okay, one more: I know DARWIN"S BLADE is next from Avon, but which novel will YOU... Boy's Life was wonderful and wonderfully received. ...be working on next: THE GREAT OVEN or THE HOUNDS OF WINTER? You're a hard man with hard questions, Herr Dorman. . . . I plan to be writing The Hounds of Winter after I finish work on the screenplay for... Children of the Night and scout locations with the crew in Transylvania this May. Which of Hemingway's works is your favorite? Also, I really enjoyed TCF. . Thank you, Kalishrike. My favorite Hemingway is his short fiction. I think it's in the short stories . . . that his true poetic ability really shines through. Of his novels . . . I confess that The Sun Also Rises still works the best for me. Which issue of Boy's Life were you in? I'll be in my son's closet the rest of the night. lol. I wish I had been in Boy's Life. I read it for years. But we're speaking of Robert R. McCammon's novel. oops! 2parts: 1) What's "The Great Oven"... Hey, who spilled this DR. Pepper on me? 2) Has anything ever come of a talk you once mentioned with Hollywood moguls for a film version of Hyperion? Eli, "The Great Oven" is a bad working title for my novel about Charles Dickens's last years . . . it's what he called the underbelly of London, the miasmic underworld there, when he explored it .. . he also referred to it as "Babylon" and something very mysterious occurred while he was researching . . . his final, unfinished mystery . . . the Mystery of Edwin Drood . . . If anyone has more questions please indicate so by typing "?" and I'll call on you. Hyperion film talks? Oh, part II of Eli's question . . . talks about Hyperion are still underway. Any further headway on a Carrion Comfort Mini-series? Nope. The miniseries was OK'd by ABC and then . . . it was turned into a proposed regular drama series . . . and then there was a bible and six scripts written, and then . . . Aaron Spelling bought the production company and killed it all as dead as Kelsey's . . . well, dead. Ah well. Eli Echos of "Kindred: The Embraced"? I think I can work some travel plans out with the Shrike... If you'll give me Aenea's phone#, to bring her to my place for dinner...? What do you think of Poppy Brite's writing? Bingo . . . I don't know Kindred: The Embraced. You know that I'm only semi-literate. Anonymous -- I thought Poppy was a bright, energetic, and original writer . . . A failed Spelling series about vampires. Lasted about 7 episodes. -- Two or three years back. but I haven't rread much of her recent work. We have 4 minutes left, officially.... Auf Viedersehen, Herr Simmons! Dan, what are you working on right now? Bingo-- that short-lived Spelling series was his reason for killing Carrion Comfort. It was based on a role playing game. Jim, right now I'm finishing Darwin's Blade and gearing up for this screenplay. Is _Children of the Night_ your first screenplay? Yep --Children will be my fist paid-for, WGA-approved, theatrical screenplay. Are you finding it easier /harder /different to write in that form? Different. Marvelously different. Very liberating and challenging. You commented back in 1990 that the movie industry as a whole was ... Watch your language now! not conducive to the type of movie you wanted to do. You called it the 'colaboritive effort syndrome'. What's been your Real World experience vis-a-vis that presupposition? Actually, I said some years ago that I could never collaborate on a novel . . . but that I admired the collaborative effort of a film. There's a concentration of many . . . creative talents in a good film and it's appropriate that the writer is just one cog in the machine . . . but I would never trade novels for writing movies. YOu said you were a natural novelist rather than short story writer. I disagree. I think your short stories and novellas are really fine. The dumbing down of science fiction for audiences? No need for everyone to log out, of course, but since our "official" time is up, I wanted to be sure to thank everyone for being here (especially Dan!) and to remind you that next week our guest will be Ray Kurzweil, one of the most fascinating people ever to work in computer arts/science. Wanna fight about it, Datlow? Yup:> Thank you Jim and Ellen and all of you who showed up.! Dan, we SHOULD talk about "Kelly Dahl" later via email. * Bingo smiles. "Yes. Please." Thanks for being a great guest. Bingo . . . what was your comment about dumbing down? You're welcome, Ellen. Thanks for agreeing to the interrogation, Dan. Nice "talking' with ya. Thanks Dan! I was referring to your comment from years ago. One of your gripes with Hollywood was that they felt a persistent need to dumb down science fiction for audiences. -- I was unclearly asking whether your experience with _Children_ has shown that to be the case? It was a pleasure chatting with you, kalishrike . . . Bingo -- your question was clear. I just failed to answer it. Yes -- there is tremendous pressure to dumb everything down. .. but no, I've been lucky in my few contacts with filmmakers. Of course, Children of the Night ; . .. is being made as an international film by German producers and a brilliant young German director. Thanks. Dan, your conversion to nonbeliever, was it caused by a death in the family? (or is that too personal) Not too personal . . . or perhaps it is, but that's OK . . . answer is no. It wasn't a conversion so much as . . . Tomorrow late afternoon would be good. Oops Sorry ignore that. erosion of belief by growing reason. Good answer Now everybody wants to know what Ellen's arranged for tomorrow pm. LOL Oh nothing:> Can I still ask a question, Dan? I'm still here and listening. Shoot. When you write, do you set yourself a number of words per day? Write with music? Standing up? :) I usually try to reach a certain part each day . . . perhaps 15-20 pages . . . and as for the music, it's interesting how many times I've been asked that recently by interviewers . . . I do listen to music, such as soundtracks, but I really agree with George Steiner's critical writing . . . about the need for "silence without and silence within" when one is reading seriously. Standing up . . .LOL. When did you first know you wanted to be a writer? About 3rd grade. Any more questions for Dan? He can stay about 10 more minutes. Going to see the new Star Wars movie? Then he collapses and turns into a pumkin. Absolutely . . . Have you heard about the novelization by Terry Brooks? Is it coming out soon? The book will be concurrent with the movie. But Terry had a "direct hotline to George" while writing it. All Muses should be so easy to reach. Auf Viedersehen, Dan (looking forward to the Rockies)! Do you collect foreign editions of your books? Auf Wiedersehn, Dorman. See you in the hills. Keats -- I get free copies of all of my foreign editions. Oh, Dan. I meant to tell you Breque did indeed translate Le Petite Morts. Can I post a log of this chat on the web? Dan, I just wanted to thanks you for all the great reading. I introduced my wife to your work with an unabridged audio book of Children of the Night and my brother is reading Carrion Comfort. They love it also. That should read 'May', instead of 'Can'. Will you be going to London to research the Dickens novel? Ellen -- can you answer Bingo? Bingo: Fine. We'll have our own transcript up shortly, but you can go ahead and do so as well. I'm checking with my colleagues....but I know we'll be archving it. Scamoatz -- thank you very, very much. You've just made my tour worthwhile. Thanks. Did you see Martin's question? Martin -- yes, I'll be researching the Dickens novel in London and other cities where he toured during his "Killing Nancy" reading series. One last question: Is Chicago a stop on this tour? More gratuitous praise; Yours are the only author's books that I buy immediately in hardcover... Bingo -- no ,Chicago isn't on the tour but I want to go there when the Cubs begin playing . . . Whose books do you wait for eagerly and snap up the day they're released, if anyone's? Eli -- I once asked Stephen King how defined " being rich" -- he said when you can go out and buy any hardcover you want. Eli -- Tom Wolfe's. I think that's about it. that's a good definition. thank you for your work. I can only add to the other's praise and thanks, Dan, but thanks for "chatting" with all of us and patiently asking questions! Robert B. Parkers . . . and then I'm always penitent. Thank you , Ellen . . .and so long to everyone. Thanks again. Thanks again, Dan (et al). Thanks Dan Thanks! Thanks, again, Dan. I finished TCF a few hours ago and enjoyed it greatly. Looking forward to the next one! Bye, Dan, thanks for your time. Thanks Dan. And everybody were (was?) a great audience. Thanks Dan Ellen - it's me,Karen. I typed ? but you never called on me! An immense pleasure, Dan. Thank you! And thanks, Ellen! what room is this? Hi Karen. I never saw you type a question mark. It was always a question mark and then the question right after. Sorry. Which Karen is this? heheh CA--this is Event Horizon's Flashpoint chat. An author chat. Good question! I assume Karen your wife. No? i entered thru the ENY projects site..does this have anything to do with that? No it doesn't. you're in teh wrong room. Karen is that you????? My compliments on Hyperion. I'm glad the mass audience liked it as much as I did. Ellen, when will the log for this chat be posted? Thank you, anonymous. I like all of your poetry very much. Rob K will know...Rob? lol ROLF By next week's chat, certainly. well, I hate to take credit for all of it Go ahead. Anyone so prolific deserves the credit . Not to mention your longevity. Thanks. Folks, I've gotta be gone. Thanks for a great chat, Dan! Good night. I'm outta here too. nighty night. Good night you two. I'm farcasting out too. SEe you next time around. nite Night, all! bye Good night (Good morning!) Thanks, Dan. [IRC log ended Thu Feb 25 23:00]